Bullying

[sarahdawson]

The Bully
John opened his eyes. The house was quiet. He rolled over to watch the light of the sunrise coming in through his window. It was …another morning and a school day. He lay back and closed his eyes, silently wishing it all would just go away.
He washed and dressed quickly, grabbing a protein bar to eat on the way to school. Maybe just maybe he would get there and the bully wouldn’t be there today. Maybe today would be different.

Meanwhile walking from the opposite direction…was the bully, and the pack of followers that invariably accompany that type. “I’m bored” one of the followers would say, “We need something FUN to do”. “Oh LOOK! John is coming this way. Let’s GET him”. “Yeah that would be FUN!”

At school the bully and minions are bragging. “Yeah it was fun, we got to beat up John again today”.
John is like most victims here and will say nothing. He worries that it will get worse if he complains.
The minions ask “oh you can take a JOKE cant you John. It was funny”.
The problem is…it is not a joke when someone is the victim.

John comes into spanking chat.
A bully and their minions are waiting.
“I’m bored. Something should be HAPPENING.” “I know, lets get John in trouble.” “Yeah then John will get beat. It will be funny.”
Note that this is not about a light scene John wants, or a mutually agreed upon erotic scene, or a disciplinary scene over real behaviours. This is because the group is bored and wants to see some action. Who John is and how he feels is irrelevant to the bully and the minions.
John gets pulled into a cyber scene.
“Now THAT was funny” “I really spanked John hard THIS time”
The whole thing strikes me as WRONG I step up and say something. “Are you really bragging about spanking someone after the fact? You are trying to elevate your own sense of self worth at John’s expense. You are gossiping about someone, breaking confidentiality of a scene, and the setting was seriously messed up.”
The bully and minions reply “oh JOHN doesn’t mind, besides we were bored and it was FUNNY.”
This means what…if the victim doesn’t stand up for themselves and object it makes the behaviour correct? Fun and funny depend only on one side…but if another is sad or angry that’s irrelevant?
Even if the victim is SO used to the abuse, they take that in stride, does it matter if it is further damaging their sense of self worth? If they see themselves as a possible object to be used by bullies to alleviate their boredom…where is their self worth really?
If John gets spanked versus punched, sure there is less risk of physical injury, but does that really change the scenario from bullying. If it is about amusing the bully and their minions out of their latest boredom is it RIGHT? Is that what a spanking scene should really be about?

I actually see iterations of the latter in the chat room OFTEN. I stepped up and said something. The only others voicing a view were the bully and the minions. NO one else stepped up and said:
1. A spanking should be for the fun of and benefit of the recipient as well as the one giving.
2. What happens in a scene is confidential unless some MAJOR group rules (such as safeword) are violated.
If you are bored and asking that someone ELSE get hit…something is WRONG with that.
1. You may only consent to your OWN scene.
2. Find some other way to deal with your boredom than insisting someone else gets hit.
3. The person you are targeting doesn’t deserve to be used by you, or by anyone else.
I don’t expect that all that pick up a paddle have personal standards. I don’t expect them all to have common sense. Bullies typically come with minions. There are followers that are oblivious to what’s happening inside the victim. They consider that irrelevant. Minions only want to be amused by the floor show. I expect bullies and minions to exist. What seriously angers me…is that the group…remained silent. The overwhelming view of the group was…that nothing was wrong with this picture.
Those that stand by and say NOTHING are part of the problem.
Why didn’t I see any of what follows?
“I’m bored. Let’s get John BEAT”. “You may ONLY consent to your OWN scene. Please go discuss your boredom with your disciplinarian.”
“Isn’t it FUNNY, I just spanked JOHN?” “What happens in a scene with you and John is confidential. Please respect John enough to keep it that way” “You feel the need to elevate your own self worth at John’s expense. Take a break from spanking to sort out your self worth issue, as currently you’re a psychological danger to those that receive.”
“Oh John doesn’t mind”. “Just because someone does not voice objection to ill treatment does not make it correct behaviour. Please treat John and all others here with basic human respect. You don’t seem to know that already so please take a break from acting as a spanker.”

Understand that I’m not really targeting the bully or the minions with this. They …will mentally excuse their own behaviour. I’m targeting the REST Of the group. Are the rest of us really on top of the situation when one member is getting bullied? Could we do better?
If a victim feels the ONLY way they will be accepted in the group…is as a victim of the group boredom, have we damaged someone’s sense of self worth. Is it proper to simply go with that and be part of that problem?

Are those that receive immune to all this?
1. Do we stand by and watch others get bullied?
2. Do we check carefully that those Tops getting picked on want that?
It is easy to point fingers at others and say what THEY are doing wrong. The difficult part is evaluating my own behaviour. Do I always stand up for others when I should? Do I always make SURE a Top getting teased wants that at all? Do I keep tabs on them to make sure they don’t tire of that and want out…but are reluctant to make an issue of it? My assessment on review is that… I… could do better.
There will be two groups reading this, a group that claims “There is nothing WRONG with what I am doing, I am just having FUN. Stop trying to spoil my fun.” and those that really hear me and look at what they are doing.
I have seriously contemplated not coming back to this site. The response I received when the issue was raised…was only that from the bully and minions. The rest were silent…in effect tacitly agreeing with the bully and minions. If it’s the case that NO one can see what IM talking about here…then I’m in the wrong place.

This situation comes closely on the heels of getting bombarded with “hey bitch” “hey slut” “hey brat” “I know you deserve a severe beating” greetings from strangers. I am omitting here many others that are worse. I requested that people stop. Treat others with basic human respect. I’m getting the response “there is nothing WRONG with what I am doing. I’m just having fun. You are too sensitive.” I would have guessed that if either person says what is going on is harmful it stops. Apparently that’s not the common view at this site. If the only way others see me is as something bad, wrong, something to hit, then psychologically that will be damaging over time. This seems to be taken as a personal attack and grounds for a counter attack. “You are too sensitive” Granted this is the MILDEST counter attack. I’m forgoing repeating many others. Isn’t there another option…of actually LISTENING…and if a scene doesn’t benefit both…then not doing that type of scene? Please multiply anything you say by 200 other people that likely pulled the same thing, thinking oh ONE person doing it is not MAJOR harm. Over the course of a day it all adds up.

The numbers HERE are way down from what I would expect to see. If I have contemplated leaving this site, how many others have seen similar things and are already gone. If the overall take here is that bullying others is ok…and I stay here…won’t I eventually become desensitized? Won’t I become LIKE these people? Is that really where I need to go?
Just because people have an interest in spanking and engage in it does not mean they are no longer due basic courtesy and respect. This is my belief. Am I seriously alone in that belief?
Notes: The victim was written as a male. Boys in school tend to use physical violence more than girls. Girls are more often verbal in their bullying. I picked a boy for this story for that reason. Victimization happens to either gender. By my screen name obviously I’m female. The victim’s name was not John.
If people are truly engaging in some form of humiliation play, take that outside newbies where onlookers won’t misunderstand what is going on. The rule is NO scene play in newbies. You are not an exception to that rule. If it is in a private room, this gives the victim the option to walk out at ANY time. (I have no interest in humiliation scenes so no need to even approach me with an offer.)
Addendum:
One person saw what I was saying and put an apology in the room. No it wasn’t the bully nor minions making any form of an apology. (Did you REALLY guess it WOULD be?)
The one person that sent an apology didn’t know about what was going on until after the fact. They posted an apology to me in the room. They heard I stood up …and no one backed me.
I have not been back to the chat room since this happened. I figured I would post a story and see the feed back. My overall feeling, based on the silence of the overwhelming, remains that I am at the WRONG site. I don’t want to be a party in bullying others…even by remaining silent. Im really angry that it seems accepted here.

[aloria[recluse]]

@sarahdawson

You're right that bullying, in any form, is simply wrong. But give 95% of the room the benefit of the doubt. Not everyone that is in Newbies is chatting there, or even monitoring that room. Most of the people in Newbies very rarely chat there. We stay in the room, but are either in IM's, or in additional rooms, or wandering the site in other tabs as well. We may never see the bullying until it is far too late to do something about it. Seeing such a conversation by scrolling back and reading an hour of the log isn't going to help, because the chat has moved on by the time we see it.

A Top that is getting picked on or teased should be able to actually say "stop, enough, knock it off". I tend to expect someone that is supposed to be strong enough to dominate others to be strong enough to stand up for themselves as well. Perhaps that is wrong too, but that's simply how I feel about it. If I do see a "stop, enough, knock it off" from a Top, and the teasing doesn't stop, then, and only then, will I be likely to say something. Possibly this is also based on a few years of watching the relationships and conversations between certain Tops, and the bottoms that tease them.

I have been known to toss in my two cents on ocassion when a bottom is being picked on, if I know the circumstances. The fact that I'm not actively monitoring the Newbies room most of time that I'm in it is one reason that I don't say something more often. If there really is an issue, and the bully doesn't stop, either the party being bullied, or anyone that is offended, can certainly IM either Sean or Sandy, and let them know. One or both will be likely to at least look into it, and put a stop to it if it's RP in the Newbies room.

I don't think I was present for the conversation that you're talking about. I hope I wasn't, because I've spent my entire life standing up to bullies, both on my own behalf, and on behalf of people that I hadn't met until the moment that I stood up to say something. It's not always easy, but you are right that when people see it, they should stand up and say something about it.

[Often123]

Very well said. I missed the original scene, so could not jump in, but I whole-heartedly despise bullying in any form. I hope sarahdawson hasn't left the site, but has found some good people to correspond with.

[sarahdawson]

If people do see something wrong when they reenter the room after being in a private scene, whats wrong with saying that? Otherwise all people see is everyone remaining silent.

I missed some things while out of the room that on reading NOW concern me.
What I saw...looked like...
it bothered me because...

That tells the person getting bullied that its not a unanimous act by the group but that there are objections. How would the victim feel when NO one said anything? Does it make a difference when they hear someone objected to how they were treated? It would be better if it was an immediate response but...people get involved in private chat. For people to say something when they see it instead of letting it go...is important. At least I think it is.

So far I havent been back to chat. I objected, and one person sent me an appology afterwards for not saying something. There are 2 others in this story section that agree that we dont need bullying. That makes 4 of us. If the overall philosophy of the group is that alien to what I believe, if the majority believe bullying is OK ...I still have to question what Im doing here. If I go there will I over time get USED to seeing those type of things...where they wont bother me any more? Do I really want a site to change who I am in that way?

I dont think it can be totally up to the victims to say something. Many figure because they are at a spanking site they are supposed to accept whatever. Others dont want to make an issue of anything. I speak up but I find that bullies and minions seriously dont listen. If something makes me or any other victim sad or angry its considered irrelevant. "We are just having fun" "Cant you take a joke?" "Thats the way things ARE here" "I have been doing this for YEARS..and I always ...." "Im the Dom..and you cant tell ME what to do.." If its against me personally I know I can use ignore. If its against someone else and its in the room... do I really figure they are always going to be able to sucessfully stand up for themselves and get the bully and minions to hear them? So far Im batting zero in getting any of that type to change their point of view. Can I really demand in effect that other victims do much better on their own?

How many other people saw what happened and quietly left the site (as opposed to someone like me that said something in the room as well as in the story section)? Perhaps it wasnt this iteration but one of the many similar incidents that drove them away. Would they be as likely to leave if the others spoke UP even if that was a few minutes after such an event?

I havent had the heart to go back in chat..and talk casually as though nothing is wrong. Im still seriously sad and angry over what I saw. It is helping that there are 3 other people that tell me Im not the only one that doesnt like how a bully operates.

s

[Often123]

Well put. I don't get into chat very often, but have commented on things that really disturb me on the Wall.

[sarahdawson]

Your a brat...just kidding.
Your a slut...just kidding
You deserve to be seriously beaten. LOL
etc etc etc.
(These are the cleaner examples of what I receive.)

What is it with the need here to lead with an insult? Despite discussion here, and in my profile...I still get this type of greeting via messages again THIS morning.

I dont figure these people greet their coworkers and family members that way. They do however see the need to greet me with some insult.

This leaves me with a choice...do I accept some sort of lesser status? Do I allow these people to talk to me like Im something less than other normal humans? Do I want to go there in order to be accepted by this group? On the other hand do I continue to call these people out on this issue? Is that seen as just being a problem...being negative?

There is a cost to standing ground. Its more "fun" to others to have a blank check and say what they will. The reaction when I say something about this in a one on one situation is annoyance to anger. I am losing people I thought were friends over this.

So where is the line? Do I..or any that receive owe ANYone a blank check?

Are those that receive supposed to accept some lesser status just because they receive in scene?

Where do you draw the line re insults and disrespect toward those that recieve?

Is this also an issue for those that give? Are people assuming that its open season to disrespect you? Is this ever OK and if it is...when is it "over the top"? (yes you may groan at the pun)

Does anyone ever buy the laughter or just kidding bit after an insult? It crosses someones mind to say in the first place. They had some reason. I never feel like the "just kidding" comment afterwards ever totally erases the harm that is done.

I see the insult ...just kidding ...routine as a form of bullying.
The hope is that if they attach a ...LOL or just kidding...afterwards, you cant possibly object (unless you wish to look like you dont have a sense of humor). Truth is some things arent funny. Having fun at someone elses expense is one of those things in my book. Its also cowardly. If you have something negative to say to someone...say it straight up. Dont then duck behind "oh its a joke" as a shield but take the heat for your insulting disrespectful comments.

I understand light play both laughing, and erotic play.
I understand disciplinary scenes where its to the recipients benifit and WITH immediate consent. In that circumstance Im ok with it if the recipient is told what they did and why they are to be spanked. The spanking is about what they did. If on the other hand the spanker launches into some verbally abusing name calling diatribe...this also strikes me as bullying and abuse. It will damage self worth over time. I see that in videos. I also see videos where there is more than two people in the scene. If the dialog implies that the recipient is some lesser human and is OK to hit for amusement...it seriously bothers me. I see that as abuse. For me to enjoy seeing a scene...both need to be getting something out of it.

Do people see non capped means an invitation for insults? Is it seen as part of the role people figure I am taking on when I come on this site with a lower cased name? Is it some immediate drop in social status where the rules of civility are different when people are addressing me?

Other people are a mirror though which I see myself. IF the only thing I can see that way is something bad, wrong, something to hit, and not a total person...what will that do to my self worth over time. Multiply any "cute" insult you think you are doing by 200 other people pulling the same stunt that same day. Its all IM hearing. It needs to stop.

Is it that people really are at a bit of a loss as to how to greet others...or is being a bully a bit of a continuum? Are there people that would stop short of punching others out in a school yard brawl, but would foray a bit into that arena by a hit and run insult? "You are....oh just joking"
Are these simply minor league bullies that are leading with insults then pulling back a bit?

What are your thoughts?
s

[Often123]

No one is subhuman just because their name isn't capped. Everyone deserves to be treated with respect, and people need to realize when they are close to crossing the line. Some things just aren't funny, and rudeness is not amusing. Anything done in scene should be mutually agreed upon, with pre-agreed limits. Yes we're here to converse about spanking, primarily, but too many are taking themselves too seriously. Didn't we come here in part to escape the outside world?

[myhiddenfantasy]

While I understand your concerns regarding bullying perhaps you are not receiving the response you are looking for because this is the story section and not a forum. People generally come here to read fiction or some sort of account of spanking. While yes there are people here who do not always demonstrate good judgement in the way they approach conversations we are all adult capable of saying what is and is not appropriate. While you dislike certain approaches, other people may find them entertaining or acceptable. You must consider this as well. Not everyone goes through the trouble of clicking a profile before they send a message to someone so they are generally unaware of what that person likes or dislikes. You can always educate them as to what you will or will no tolerate without taking immediate offense. If they continue to address you in a manner you dislike than you always have the option of ignoring them or reporting the user to the site. Unfortunately on a site where so many people have so many different tastes it is hard to know what to take seriously and what not to. Yet please remember every one here makes a conscious decision to log on and another conscious decision to enter a chat room and decisions on whether to leave the chat or to block certain users.

I don't think bullying is okay but I also don't think it is okay to absolve people of responsibility for their actions that contribute to such behavior. Failing to report the individuals to the site or not addressing the situation on their own is just as much a problem as bullying. Especially because this is a fantasy site where all sorts of people behave in all sorts of ways because here is where they are free to do that.

[sarahdawson]

Sure its true that those listed at the top of the chat room are to try to keep order as much as possible. I would hope that is an obvious given.

Are you suggesting that those others in the room bear no responsibility if some form of abuse is going on? Is our own good time so important that we are excused from seeing to it...as far as possible... that no one gets harmed in the process?

What are your thoughts?
s

[Often123]

The moderators can't be expected to see everything as it happens, and sometimes it might seem at first like 2 people are scening. If others see what's going on, they should speak up.